Change font size
The Obelisk Radio - Now Playing: Loading... (iTunes)
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:02 am


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 15 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:49 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 268
Location: UK
Hey guys, I sold a 4 track tape recorder on Ebay which was in perfect working condition when i posted it (in a box with loads of foam balls and bubble wrap), and just got a message from the buyer saying that it wont record or play, when they press play the tape doesnt move. Seeing as im pretty rubbish with the technical side of machines I need help, can any of you guys offer any advice for me to give them before I have to accept it back and give them a refund? man, what happened? grr ~.~ thanks :)

_________________
Blog - http://jemdoom.blogspot.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:47 am
Posts: 204
Location: Asheville, NC
You used it, and it was working? Either there is a pause button or hold switch that they flipped, or they're having buyer's remorse and trying to get their money back.

_________________
These people are my friends, whether they like it or not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:50 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:02 pm
Posts: 61
agent of change wrote:
You used it, and it was working? Either there is a pause button or hold switch that they flipped, or they're having buyer's remorse and trying to get their money back.



this





......maybe a model number or something would help in some more troubleshooting as far as "buttons pressed"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:54 am
Posts: 987
Cassette technology is so unreliable these days, that I sort of wonder why anyone would go through the hassle on either end. The motors and capstans in most cassette based players/ recorders are definetely at the age where they're not even worth it to fix, because there's no resale value on those things. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, heh, but I went through the hassle of trying to hold onto the cassette based recording aspect until the breakdowns on that equipment that's undeniably a decade or more old just wasn't worth it anymore. It could have been buyer's remorse on the purchaser's end, but more likely, the tape mechanism failed....it's so common that it's really a legitimate complaint and issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:54 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 268
Location: UK
yeah its as I thought, it probably took a knock in the post whch was enough to wreck it, the annoying thing is it was perfect when I posted it, so £50 lost for nothing, what bad luck! refund it is, does anyone want a broken 4 track? ;)

_________________
Blog - http://jemdoom.blogspot.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 11
I'll gladly take a free broken four track!

Does the 4 track power on? It may have to do with the power supply...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:54 am
Posts: 987
JemDooM wrote:
yeah its as I thought, it probably took a knock in the post whch was enough to wreck it, the annoying thing is it was perfect when I posted it, so £50 lost for nothing, what bad luck! refund it is, does anyone want a broken 4 track? ;)


Sorry to hear that it got damaged in the mail, though. Man, I tell you, cassette recording systems.....I remember doing lots of recordings in the 90's where you'd have a dropout in the middle of your best take, sometimes the tape motors would speed up and slow down, etc. I still have alot of those demos, too. I'm old enough to have gone through that, and then get excited for things like when Zip disk digital recorders came around in the late 90's. "250 MB? WOW!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 268
Location: UK
It returned today i'll check it out and see if it can be salvaged, Brat you may get a PM, Ryan those demos sound awesome, i was really looking forward to the magic of cassette recording but this one recorded in double speed, so when I put the tape in my player it was suuuuuper slow, im too impatient to work around these problems but i dont want something thats too easy either ;)

_________________
Blog - http://jemdoom.blogspot.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:54 am
Posts: 987
JemDooM wrote:
It returned today i'll check it out and see if it can be salvaged, Brat you may get a PM, Ryan those demos sound awesome, i was really looking forward to the magic of cassette recording but this one recorded in double speed, so when I put the tape in my player it was suuuuuper slow, im too impatient to work around these problems but i dont want something thats too easy either ;)


Yeah--you know, I really wanted to get the most out of cassette based recording, but there's just not enough tape (magnetic particles) to get the most out of it. It was a great medium while it lasted, because it really was the only way to get a halfway decent recording that wasn't a shitty boombox practice recording.....I remember knowing one guy that had a Tascam 4-track and recording his own stuff in around the 1995 range, and that was practically godly to me. Whenever i'd see a used 4 track come around, it was usually a few hundred bucks, and the new ones in the store were always....it was like there was this angelic aura around them, like the holy grail.

My final issue with cassette based recorders was with a Tascam 2488--at the time, it was the highest fidelity and arguably one of the best cassette based recorders, but by the time i'd got it that was well past it's expiration date in terms of reliability, the same issues came up.....motor was shot (speeding up, slowing down), etc. I couldn't fault the seller, because I knew that those things were always on the edge of destruction.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:12 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 268
Location: UK
Thanks for the insight Ryan, I guess I presumed they were reliable and hardy seeing as theres so many still around and changing hands, the thing is definetly screwed now anyway! im thinking of trying out the DR-07 that black mastermind uses next!

_________________
Blog - http://jemdoom.blogspot.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:47 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 11
Yeah I'll make good use of that thing. Let me know, thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 9:20 pm 

Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 9:04 pm
Posts: 2
Has anyone mentioned here that 4 track cassette machines and all cassette decks for that matter, need the internal rubber belts to be replaced and or cleaned after many years, and also all moving parts and motors need to be oiled properly ? Just like your vehicle, aduh', you need to keep it clean and learn how to properly lube it from time to time.Any one who buys used gear off eBay should know this by now. That is why when you buy a used car or anything it is sold "AS IS".

Obviously you should not own or buy any mechanical electronic device if you don't have a clue on how to maintane it properly. Of course most people can't even change a car tire, let alone figure out how to repair a mechanical device.......but you need to learn how, some day you just may need it.

There is plenty of info online about cassette deck and tape restoration so I suggest you check it out. Cassette decks can be more reliable than even CD players. The internal CD burner lense mechanism has a finite lifespan, hence a short one. Cassette decks when maintained can last well over 30 years. Even when subjected to vehicle road vibrations and bumps.

I have had solid state digital gear even go out, and once it does you pretty much throw it in the trash.

The cassette decks will always have a certain sound quality, but digital will always be dated because the next best digital format is always around the corner. Just like Vinyl, Cassette tape lifespan is estimated around 70 years, and also the decks that play them will still work as long as you have rubber belts and 110 volts. And some machine oil.

Any true Audiophile knows that MP3 players sound worse than CD's, even a good cassette tape recording sounds better. Even the so called Loseless IPOD format does not sound as good as CD. However Reel to Reel tape deck recordings will blow away even the best Vinyl Records, CD's and even 24 bit DVD Audio. 2" wide Mastered Studio Reel to Reel Analog Tape recordings can not be matched by even the very best digital formats.

So what is the life span of CDR and DVDR media these days ? Seven years maybe if your lucky.......and who knows about hard drives and memory sticks ??? Maybe that is why Professional Archivist still use the Tape Medium in addition to digital methods to back up their critical stuff. Besides analog tape just sounds more warm and cozy.......


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:54 am
Posts: 987
aarowsmith wrote:
Has anyone mentioned here that 4 track cassette machines and all cassette decks for that matter, need the internal rubber belts to be replaced and or cleaned after many years, and also all moving parts and motors need to be oiled properly ? Just like your vehicle, aduh', you need to keep it clean and learn how to properly lube it from time to time.Any one who buys used gear off eBay should know this by now. That is why when you buy a used car or anything it is sold "AS IS".

Obviously you should not own or buy any mechanical electronic device if you don't have a clue on how to maintane it properly. Of course most people can't even change a car tire, let alone figure out how to repair a mechanical device.......but you need to learn how, some day you just may need it.

There is plenty of info online about cassette deck and tape restoration so I suggest you check it out. Cassette decks can be more reliable than even CD players. The internal CD burner lense mechanism has a finite lifespan, hence a short one. Cassette decks when maintained can last well over 30 years. Even when subjected to vehicle road vibrations and bumps.

I have had solid state digital gear even go out, and once it does you pretty much throw it in the trash.

The cassette decks will always have a certain sound quality, but digital will always be dated because the next best digital format is always around the corner. Just like Vinyl, Cassette tape lifespan is estimated around 70 years, and also the decks that play them will still work as long as you have rubber belts and 110 volts. And some machine oil.

Any true Audiophile knows that MP3 players sound worse than CD's, even a good cassette tape recording sounds better. Even the so called Loseless IPOD format does not sound as good as CD. However Reel to Reel tape deck recordings will blow away even the best Vinyl Records, CD's and even 24 bit DVD Audio. 2" wide Mastered Studio Reel to Reel Analog Tape recordings can not be matched by even the very best digital formats.

So what is the life span of CDR and DVDR media these days ? Seven years maybe if your lucky.......and who knows about hard drives and memory sticks ??? Maybe that is why Professional Archivist still use the Tape Medium in addition to digital methods to back up their critical stuff. Besides analog tape just sounds more warm and cozy.......


In the end though, for me, cassette technology just isn't worth it--i'd had a Fostex 4 track and made recordings on it and my buddy had a Tascam, and neither were optimal ways to record after digital technology and computer based recording came around. It's just plain logic--indeed, cassette is tape, but it simply does not have enough magnetic particles to capture the sound that 1" tape, for example, has. Anyone is fooling themselves if they think that they can get the same quality out of cassette that they can out of a big Studer or Otari machine.

There is also no way that cassette (in my opinion, of course) sounds better than recording on 44.1/ 16 bit digital--i've heard the actual monitored sound on something like a Tascam 238 (in it's day one of the best cassette based units), and with cassette, there's always an extreme balance between reducing tape hiss and actually staying somewhat faithful to the actual monitored sound. I don't like Dolby B with cassette, because it took out so many highs that maintaining top end clarity was an issue. Even the 238 had DBX, which imparted weird, unnatural compression to 1/4 cassette tape. I did not like that at all, but it was either DBX or wild tape hiss, because with considerably less magnetic particles on 1/4 cassette tape, it's foolish to think that if 1" tape captures the sound well, that 1/4 would perform at anywhere near the same results in signal to noise ratios, or monitored versus recorded sound (much like the comparisons to MP3's coded at 128 KBPS versus 320 KBPS--some sonic information just gets held back in the reduced format, and I consider 1/4 tape to be the 128 to the larger tape's 320).

I personally don't like an end medium that changes the monitored sound. Digital gets bashed (and certainly early 80's digital had a long ways to go in terms of it's internal processing), but the main reason for that is that it doesn't color the signal, it just gives you back what you put into it. I work very hard to get it right going into the machine, so I never blame the final medium for whatever deficiencies that I have as an engineer or producer. Tom Dowd (an old respected engineer/ producer that has since passed away) had been an active guy for digital, because I remember in an interview that he didn't like the way that tape changed the way he'd sent the monitored sounds into the board. I think that it's up to me to color the signal (through compression/ EQ/ effects), personally. Alot of people like to wait, but I try to print the sound as close as I want it to sound in the end (barring some taste things or other options in the mix).

With 44.1/ 16, I hear so little difference between the monitored sound and the actual recorded sound that there is no way in hell that i'd go back to 4 track cassette if someone PAID me good money. I use a Neve Portico preamp for maximum mic input fidelity, and there's no way i'd sully my recordings by going back to 4 track cassette. I think that 16/44.1 is a great, near lossless format (I only really hear some difference in the 15-20 kHz, personally), and that 24/ 44.1 is outstanding. Regarding digital, I find far more merit in increased bit size, seeing as that Nyquist theories (double the highest frequency) sort of dictate that going beyond 20 kHz (and therefore 40 kHz or 44.1 kHz, anyways) is getting into theoretical "better" things, but which have limited or no results.

I'll agree that digital archiving isn't the greatest idea, though. You do have to watch even what you record on. AVOID Seagate hard drives, because I had one brick on me and lost several songs, and i've heard others that had their Seagate hard drives brick--some with recovered results, some without. Regarding cd lenses, they do have a lifespan, but some people also forget that they need maintenance, as well. Sometimes they're perceived as "done", but when cleaned, work properly. My car's cd player appeared to be done, but i'd cleaned it and it works properly and the car is 11 years old. And i'll also agree that (and i've said this here in vinyl versus cd threads), that there is nothing that sounds better than the original master, whether that's on tape or digital.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:31 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 268
Location: UK
pretty inspiring to think about arrowsmith ~.~

agh im so confused, i just want to go back in time, get a flight to the US with my guitar and knock on Autopsy's door in 1989 and ask them to help me record my stuff...

_________________
Blog - http://jemdoom.blogspot.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling all 4 track cassette tape recorder experts :o
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:37 pm 

Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 9:04 pm
Posts: 2
All very good and valid points, yes I too think digital is the future and has replaced everything including all analog tape for well over a decade now.

I agree it is far more convenient to use digital rather than analog in the form of a computer, software, hard drives, and optical media, to record and playback music.

But cassette 4 tracks have a certain vintage sound to them that digital software can't replicate. If your not going for that analog sound, then digital will do. I guess I love both formats digital and analog.

I like the challenge of analog tape, digital just seems way too easy. With digital you never have to clean anything or get down and dirty into maintenance. And with digital your not forced into playing and recording in a linear fashion, as analog forces you to think in only one forward direction and in real time. Kind of like recording a band Live. Analog is hard work and down to earth.

But I am not willing to throw away analog tape just yet. Maybe when analog tape itself turns to dust, and the tape decks stop working or no parts are available, or myself stops working, then I will stop using analog tape.

Thank God that analog will always exist in the way our ears hear, the way loud speakers and head phones operate, and analog is the way we record into our microphones after all.

But the tricky part is getting the analog into digital without losing some of the analog quality.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 15 posts ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net